Monday, April 10, 2017

8th Ed Rumours and Reactions

Sticking with the reliable ones, from the Warhammer Community Post:
  • Three Ways to Play
    I am a huge fan of this. The 40K Community as it stands today isn't a good fit for the kind of open-ended play that 6th and 7th seem to have been designed for. People travel too much, and play in too many different places, to be able to just work things out each time. Some sort of consistency is needed, and it will go over far better coming from GW than from outside groups like the ITC.
  • Army Selection/Command PointsTo me, this sounds a lot like one of the two main arguments for Formations: Providing extra bonuses for fluffy lists. And as with Formations, I like the concept, but it's really going to depend on the execution, and how balanced the "Command Point" system ends up being.
  • Movement ValuesI'm fine either way with this one, honestly. I like the extra variety that varied movement rates bring in, and it's definitely fluffy for a Howling Banshee or Tyranid Warrior to be able to move faster than a Guardsman or Ork.
  • Save ModifiersMixed feelings here. I recall this being one of the things that slowed down 2nd to some extent, and I do like the simple binary nature of the AP system. Also, back in the day, I heard a fluff-based argument for it that has always made sense to me:
    Let's take Power Armour as an example. It has stronger and weaker areas. A solid hit (i.e. successful to-Wound Roll) to a joint or eyepiece with basically any Weapon will go through. A hit on the plating will bounce most things just fine, no matter where on the plating. So if the AP value is worse than 3, it all comes down to whether or not the Attacker manages to hit one of those weak spots, which the Game abstracts to a 1/3 chance. If the AP is 3 or better, it will go right through any part of the Power Armour, plating or gap, so it just denies it altogether.
    The Save Modifier system, on the other hand, starts from the basis that all Armour is composed of a variety of variably durable materials, so that a cheap slug-thrower has still that same 1/3 chance of hitting something it'll punch through, while a Bolter will find something half the time, and a Heavy Bolter two times in three. And it assumes that the distributions of those various strengths are the same across all makes of 3+ Armour, whether that's Loyalist or Traitor Power Armour, Dark Reaper Aspect Armour, or a Carnifex's Carapace.
  • Chargers Strike FirstGetting the Charge is already pretty crucial for most Assault Units, and the ones that are good at absorbing Charges, it's generally because of their durability, not because they get to hit first. It does help some things, notably Orks, but it leads to just as many weird situations as the current system. Instead of Stealers going last because of some tall grass on the way in, now Guardsmen can strike before them if they Charge, even with the Stealers in an amazing defensive position.
  • MoraleAnother take it or leave it change. Well, something should change, there are too many things that largely or completely ignore Morale as it is, but I don't really care if that takes the form of switching to a Battleshock-type system, or nerfing ATSKNF and reducing the availability of Fearless.
So, overall, a pretty positive impression, from what we've heard so far. Most things either positive or neutral to me, with a couple really dependent on the specifics of how they work across various Armies. When all's said and done, tho, this is gonna be my seventh 40K edition change, and I'm sure I'll adapt, as I have to the previous six.


  1. It's hard to put a lot of faith in any rumor, but I'm glad the rumors are pointing as a major revamp. It's what is needed.

    1. That was poor word choice on my part. All of these points were mentioned by GW during their presentation at Adepticon. The link above is to their community website, with the excerpts from the presentation. Possibly subject to change, but since they were talking ~1 year til release, they have to be getting things in final form pretty soon here to have everything ready in time to go to production for a starter box. The lead time on those starters is pretty huge.

    2. It's all good. Either way, rumor or from the horse's mouth, as you said - it's a long ways out, and who knows what will happen between now and then. I don't let things sway me with so much time before it's actually seen for that reason.

      Anyway, it's good regardless. I want 40K back to what it was when it drew my interest. It's strayed so far from what it once was that it's hardly recognizable. I understand that things evolve and adapt, but it's not done the game any favors. 40K Is basically Epic + Apocalypse + sprinkling of Planetstrike + standard 40K all mashed together, and it does not work. Bring back the squad based strategy game I grew to love GW.

    3. Exactly. It needs to go back to a solid core with optional add-ons.

  2. I have to say I'm in favor of most of it, on the fence with the saves and not in favor of the charge changes.

    Most of the changes are a step in the right direction, but the save modifiers is something that I both like and hate. On one hand it means that my guard will have a chance at a save against a lot of weapons they don't get now, but I agree with the fluff arguememt you've listed.

    As for charging, a straight up charge and strike first is just silly. I can't imagine an work mob charging a harlequin troop and getting to strike first or a bunch of guardsmen charging wyches and striking first, its just silly. Something like an I3 Boost would sit better with me.

    1. +3I on the Charge would probably be about right, yeah. And going that route would also make it easier to put in some sort of penalty for Charging through Cover without completely wrecking things. If it went down to +1 for Charging into Cover, or even didn't apply at all*, that would still have a noticeable effect and be worth holding defensive positions, but would leave Stealers and such viable.

      *Just thought of this: +3 for Charging in the open. No bonus for Charging into Cover without any beneficial Rules or Gear. +1 for Charging into Cover with Move through Cover. +2 for Charging into Cover with Assault Grenades.